WM – Chapter 240: The confusion of a certain Ancient Dragon

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• Thanks!

  • Goddammit, he really threaten them LOL (he doesnt aware of it though)

    The Great Spirit is obeying this man?
    This man is an Evil God Apostle?
    No, that’s not it.

    You almost got him you know?

    Also wtf!? Abel turned into a girl? Wait.. Dont tell me he's Anna!? Well well What a plot twist author san.

    • That’s my thought as well. Makoto is actually the Hero of the story and Able is the Holy Maiden. The line of “Able” when he left is making more sense now.

    • I'm already suspect of the plot from the start of the arc but still not enough information to prove it. Well now look the author had put a bomb here. Now i'm pretty sure that the plot where makoto go to the past is the correct timeline. It was also mentioned that Anna fell for abel but he reject her said that there was someone waiting for him and he goes somewhere and didnt return

      • Do you think that maybe the changes on Abel statue color and maybe appearance were because it was made to look like Makoto?

        • I took that to mean that the statue was getting shabbier every time Makoto looked at it, so the Demons in the past were erasing his achievements. The statue got less and less impressive, and people started showing less importance on the name of Abel, until the gods finally noticed when Makoto noticed that people weren't calling Abel 'Savior' anymore.

        • But that too could be taken as makoto usurping the achievements meant to be done by Abel.
          Abel went down a notch from savior to hero and makoto became the savior

        • Probably both. I thought that at first,since the color and most likely material were changing, but it being Abel at first then changing to Makoto is also a possibility. Even both at the same time.

        • Assuming it's always been Makoto, the changes in the statue could be showing the change in feelings between him and Anna/Abel. The first time he saw it, it was a very impressive timeless white statue, but it's been going down in quality as history changes, meaning that Anna's memories of Abel were getting less cherished.

    • My thoughts exactly.

    • I, for one, am glad Abel is a girl because did anyone else notice how Abel was subtly treating Makoto the same way Momo was a little. It's almost like he had a crush on the guy, so I was a little disgusted by him but if he's actually a girl then 🤗😤👍. Also don't try to say it just looked like admiration because he was way too weird for it to be that😑.

    • I know people were joking about abel secretly being a girl because every other character makoto interacts with is, but I don't think anyone would have thought it was more than cross dressing rather than apparently some type of magic apparently.

    • You know, this was kind of obvious since Makoto's first impression of Abel. I mean "Annabelle"...
      On the other hand though, that means that the (in)famous conversation where Abel told Anna he was leaving 'cause there was someone wanting for him despite being lovers, supposedly (before "Anna" pretty much created Highland and it's church all by herself), was likely made up from but and scratches from some conversation between Makoto and and Abel instead.

  • Good job in breaking kamikaze's topstreak

    • Well its thanks for my luck. Not sure if i could continue being first

• Thank you very much for the chapter

  • Looks like it's your lost now

    • It was very strange you know.
      I was doing my imitation of a tarantula waiting for the chapter like usual, but when the chapter came there was already a comment there.
      I suspect foul play 😤

      • Bruh, i was thinking the same thing when you are first one to comment. Cause when notification appeared. I tap it as fast as i can, but still you are there 2 minutes past😂😂

        • Delay in arrival of notifications most likely.

    • wait i dont do anything LOL, it just my luck that i got the prefect timing of the chapter being released

• Thank you for the chapter!

  • Wait what Abel is girl or Abel has genderswap !!???
    .
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    .
    .
    .
    Wait wait wait what........no way Abel is holy Maiden Anna ????

    • Always was. *pop*

• Made my coffee beforehand while waiting. Thanks for the chapter

  • And so, I just had to draw it. Abel? Anna? Annabelle?
    https://imgur.com/gallery/1XesR85

• Thank you for the chapter !

  • …The dragon family has been spreading the rumor that I am an Ancient Dragon that has lived for 10,000 years.
    I am not at that age yet though… Well, that’s fine.
    Lol, that rumour is sure hurtful for a woman.

    A Divine Protection that a Goddess of the Divine Realm gave me before.
    The magic eyes of clairvoyance.
    Ira maybe ?

    [Today, we of the dragon family will perish by the hands of XXXXXX]
    The moment I saw that, I turned over.
    (Please wait!! Please don’t kill my dragon family!)
    Lol, the dragons got rekt by Makoto.

    “Yes… I am Abel…”
    She said this while fidgeting a bit and with both hands at her back.
    H-Hero Abel turned into a woman?!
    Wait, did Abel bath in a cursed spring and turns into a woman upon contact with cold water ? Well, I guess that Abel is Anna with her appearance.

    A Hero that we all thought that he was a man was in fact a woman. She can also shoot beams with her sword thanks to the Light Hero skill. Interesting.
    https://i.imgur.com/miLdt86.png

    • Saber from fate right? 🤔

      • That's right.

    • A large, humanoid swallow.

      • Tsubame Gaeshi !
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiFDnDmLyII&ab_channel=KietNguyen

        • Subame gaeshi, higuma otoshi, hakugei, kagerou zutsumi, hekatonchires no mon ban... 🤔

    • Probably Ira, as future = destiny = Ira.
      Plus, Ira writes Makoto's RPG choices in similar fashion, so she may have been purposely stacking options that push the holy dragon to help Makoto.

    • answer to your questions:
      -The clairvoyance skill maybe an inherent ability which can be used if you have enough mana. Momo 1000 years later has it you know.(maybe, since my mind is hazy about it)
      -You may not notice this, but Abel's personality from the start was already quite girly. So this might be his(or her , now) constitution.
      -It's the Spring of Life you know. How can it be cursed?
      another thing:
      -Abel beam is rainbow-colored, while Seiba beam is golden-colored, so they are different.

      • I think momo-chan said before that she could only look for about a minute into the future because she wasn’t good at it.
        Unless I’m mistaken

      • The thing about the cursed spring was a reference to Ranma 1/2.

        It is just that the skill Light Hero reminds me of Saber using Excalibur like when Sakurai killed Zagan in one hit.

    • Hmm, this isn't from Takeuchi is it? She seems more..., delicate. Still lovely though.

    • Fate nerds PepePains

    • technically abel doesn't have the light skill. only lightning.

      • That part is actually kinda odd. Abel clearly does have the Light Hero skill because as soon as sunlight hit her, she could overcome Cain's armor-implicitly making it a God-rank strike.

        But Abel doesn't seem to know about this skill despite having the appraisal for it.

        • It's not like you are always checking your skills with appraisal, right ? You don't usually expect to have more unique skills without doing anything particular. It is not something that can be increased easily. One of the few ways to gain an unique skill is through the Divine Protection of a God.

• Thank you as always!

• Thank you for the new chapter

• Abel is Anna confirmed

  • And Makoto is Abel(?). And Anna(abel?) fell in love with Makoto but the one waiting for him is Lucy as he promised

    • I was thinking that for a while after Makoto arrived in the past. I finally started a week ago and finally caught up.

    • Sounds about right.

    • I was thinking the one waiting for him would be Noah. Since the last time he used the line was for Noah

      • Definitely Noah first, but all the other girls as well.

      • I don't think its actually for Noah, as the departure with Lucy was pretty punctuated with his promise to her. It's not even Noah's arc yet. He would likely go to deep sea dungeon at later date, the context is more suitable with him coming back to Lucy

    • After reading this chapter and everyone's comments, I have some thoughts I wanna put out when you guys were talking about Abel and Anna:
      - Firstly, just as everyone think, Abel might just be Anna, but when Makoto said Anna looks just like Noel, I don't think it necessarily mean that Anna is Noel, we still don't have enough information to prove that Anna = Noel just yet unless someone pull out a spoiler card and say otherwise.
      - Secondly, about how "Abel" saying someone is waiting for him, we know that's from Lucy's promise, but if we think about it, everyone know that Abel is identified with blonde hair, not black, so if the history is true unless Matoko dyed his hair there's no way someone other than the party involved (Makoto, Momo, Abel) so someones in the past or the goddest can just alter the history to be like that story anyway.
      Thirdly, for the royal family, it's either I forgot about it, or Annabel still have relatives right? If people really saw that Abel straight up rejected Anna and said that he have someone waiting for him, then that eitheir Abel or Anna is a fake (or clone?), or like I said earlier, Makoto need to dyed his hair and make up his face to look like Abel, which I find absolutely unnecessary, since there're some people that know him already. So there's definitely some bs in that story so I think that everyone shouldn't take it at face value, yet.
      And finally, for the ice coffin, I bet it's either the real Anna is in there 90%, if not, a future harem member, Dia? She lived as a spirit, she's basically immortal, Helemerck (The dragon)? The story had already stated that she was seen about 100 years ago when Makoto was at the present, everyone should know of this. Momo did not allow anyone to come close to the coffin, so my guess is that Momo, Anna and Dia knew about Matoko going to the past from the present time. Anna (or someone else, we're not sure yet) want to be with Makoto so bad they froze themself in a coffin, waiting for 1000 years, and since Momo can't use water magic as good as Makoto, Dia might be the one to maintain the coffin, while Momo is the guard, keeping everyone away from knowing it, waiting to welcome Makoto when he finally come back from the past.

    • Also gdi, I should turn off my auto spelling, and there's already people having better thoughts than mine, but there should be some other comments in the JP side too, and I don't think the author would just let us predict the outcome like this, some mind fuckery will probably be involved.

    • To add to that it was mentioned that Cain killed all the heroes except for Abel and that they where friendly. We have seen how Abel hates Cain for killing the fire hero so being friendly with Cain would be weird, Makoto on the other hand can be friendly because the both have Noah in common.

      For the different hair color and/or face remember that Makoto has a transformation skill that he can use to change his appearence.

• So the holy maiden and Abel from the legends were the same person all along

  • Well, at least Highland actually did get the genes they wanted. Just didn’t know it.

• The woman that looks exactly like Princess Noel had a shocked face in the clothes of Hero Abel.

  Judging from her clothes and her way of talking, she must be Abel.

  Wtf! Are we just going to ignore the fact that Anna is Abel and looks like Noel? Is this NTR for Sakurai?

  • It's not, abel in the past and anna in the present are differents.

    • We just got confirmation that Abel and Anna are the same person. Why does Anna look exactly like Noel then?

    • I think that there are two options, one where Abel is left in the past and she moves on and have children, or two she has babies with Makoto and is left in the past, personally I think that the first option is the more likely.

      • I think that on where’s the story is going and what the legends say, it is doubtful that Anna would marry and have babies with anyone else. I’m saying this because it looks like at the way the story flows, Anna will fall in love with Makoto so that is peculiar.

        • Nah its pretty easy to think of Anna marrying another man. She's basically a sub heroine that got dumped by the MC. Even in Nisekoi Kosaki ended up with another man after not chosen by Raku. Makoto will reject Anna, saying that he has someone that waits for him, hence the legend that Noel hates.

        • What makes you think that a woman that got rejected won't move on? You might read too much harem romcom series

        • On a side note, if Makoto doesn't somehow have long lifespan. Lucy might be marrying another man after his death. Her Mother has multiple marriages be it by divorce and maybe because of her spouse's lifespan. Not something that makes you feels good in a feels good, self insert harem series, but it's perfectly logical.

        • This is novel is mainly a shounen harem. You really think the author will kill off Makoto? Or that he will make Anna marry some schmuck we don’t even know? Let’s name some candidates that might be possible.

          Johnny- not really possible since Momo did say that he didn’t even try to lay his hands on them and that Highland royalty doesn’t have elf characteristics.

          Cain- he killed Abel’s master. The hate that Abel/Anna has on him, he/she might not even consider Cain.

          Mel- this dragon is a girl so it would be the opposite but we haven’t seen if she could transform to a human.

          Now, who else would be a candidate? Oh look rereading the novel now, it also said the Anna disappeared. Would she leave her new husband and children for something else?

          I don’t even think that the Highland royalty inherited her blood based on the new information. The history’s turning out to be complete bullshit, that only the main idea should be trusted but not the exact details. I’d really like to read the raws now to further dispute your point but I’ll refrain from that. I’ll just wait and see and make another one after we’ve catched up with it.

        • The novel doesn't shy away from the topic of divorce and re-marriage with Lucy's mother. I think the novel is step above some cheap harem novel with the details it has. Sure we might need some backstory of how it goes after the assumable rejection but it's presumptuous to say that Anna(abel) won't be able to move on with makoto. We haven't even seen how she fell for him yet. Unless anna has a developmed feelings like, for example, Aya with her yandere ish vibe, There's no particular need of going into details on who's gonna be her actual partner. We'll have to wait and see. Anna was dissapeared? I'll have to re read it, I guess. But I still don't think that Anna and Noel are the same person for that matter, as she grew up normally with Geralt. Unless its some reincarnation shit going on, it's more believable that anna left descendants and disappeared somehow. Instead of NTR bullshit of Anna being the same person as Noel.

        • The Holy Gods can reincarnate people. This is already confirmed on Shuri. We still haven’t gotten an explanation as to how Abel changed form so there’s that too. The frozen in ice theory is still unsure because we don’t know if lifespan is used when frozen. Time spirits being used to travel back sounds more realistic for me. I’ll do a followup of this one after Anna gets rejected. My stance for now is wait and see.

        • Yep, that's my stance as well. It's possible that time spirit is used to "freeze" Makoto's lifespan while the Ice is there to freeze his body. Actually he might not even need to freeze his body if the time spirit is enough to freeze his state. We'll have to wait and see.

        • As for the fate of Makoto, the top scenario would be the frozen in ice theory in which he goes in deep slumber for 1000 years, because of the coffin thing in the great white sage house.

    • Either A: descendents
      B: some timeline tomfuckery
      or C: Noel is quite literally the 'second' Anna. Completely similar in appearance and skill. Like Eir using the souls of sacrificed demons to make heroes, Althena 'recycled' Anna's soul for Noel. Which is my current take on it.

      Or maybe Anna pulled some next level stalker shit and found a way to implant her soul into other people that are similar to her for the sake of meeting makoto in the future.

      • That's a good theory. We might found out about the truth and the details on the battle with the great demon lord in the past. The "NTR" with Furiae is fairly reasonable, but Noel was shown to have real affection to Sakurai. It's hard to think that she's a stalker kind of thing, but still a possibility nevertheless

  • nah, this is author ways of making Makoto gets Noel without NTR-ing Sakurai

    • Yeah but it’s also confirmed that Noel likes Sakurai. Wtf I’m so confused right now. This is probably what the raw readers were referring to as a big plot twist.

      • No, I mean since Noel already love Sakurai, author is giving Makoto new harem character that looks just like her

        That way, Makoto still got the big boobed blonde princess

        • Noel is a big boobed?? I thought most of the girls looks like a loli including noel

        • There are illustrations of Noel and she has big melons.

        • https://i.imgur.com/L2DnqNl.jpeg

        • Heh. Yeah, I can imagine that design being redressed as the Light Hero.

          ....Geez, Takatsuki's design is still so bland and generic. I always imagine something more...dorky. Like the boy from BokuYaba or Shiraishi from Kubo-san.

        • Nah, the thing that made it generic is only his face

          Long pants, shoes, and vest with a holster belt is cool enough for me, especially since that's my go to appearance when dressing up in RDR2.

          The coat makes him looks like someone who owns rich companies in a spaghetti western, or someone from prohibition era. We only need a hat.

        • Noel really has big breasts. The other characters who could compete with her would be Rosalie and Eir I guess.

      • But Anna existed first than Noel. Who is Noel then and why does she look like Anna? Are there two exact copies of the same person? I don’t think that Makoto lost his virginity in the past to Anna since that is unlikely.

    • Sakurai was NTRed plenty already with Furiae falling in love with Makoto, not saying that Sakurai explicitly loves Furi or anything. You know what? Not even Noel got Sakurai's biggest affection. It's actually Makoto. So yeah Sakurai is a part of Makoto's harem huehuehue

  • I’m so mindfucked right now. So based on the stories, Abel left Anna saying he had someone waiting for him (Lucy’s promise). If we assume that “Abel” is Makoto and “Anna” is Abel, why the fuck does Anna look like Noel then? Abel (Makoto) left Anna (Abel) after the fight against Iblis so it’s doubtful that they had the chance to procreate especially when the legends say that Anna was sad.

    My previous theory was that Anna was in the coffin, but right now I’m so confused since Noel which looks like Anna is already there. What the heck is inside the coffin? Why does Noel look like Anna? Is she Anna’s reincarnation and biggest question of all is, is Makoto going to legally NTR Sakurai if Noel is Anna?

    • Noel is a descendant of Anna(Abel) with another man. Why does Noel look like Anna? It's not unheard of that a descendant looks exactly like the predecessor.

    • Granted, a thousand years later and looking exactly the same means either really strong genes, common appearance, or lots of incest in the royal family. At least, two of these options are nice traits.

    • dude dont forget the term "clone"

    • There's multiple theory that I could think of:

      1. Highland being descendants of Anna is a lie. Anna adopted someone.

      2. She switched to Abel for having offspring, therefore her "mates" is a female. It's possible for him to be a sperm donor only, meaning no body contact whatsoever.

      3. Time Travel shenanigans. Anna did get married with someone in the original timeline, resulting in Highland royals. The inside of coffin is indeed Anna, but the "changed" one due to her love with Makoto. Both stays because of the effect of Ira's work, other divine entities, or part of RPG Player skill powers.

      4. Clones. Highland royals were clones born from Abel/Anna due to magic thingy.

      • While all options feel weird until we have more info, I wanna say that adoption shouldn't be possible considering the family resemblance Noel has.

        • It's totally possible though, especially if author is setting up for a distraction until we're given enough info

  • Or, Noel is Makoto’s descendant.

    • Do you think the author will make Makoto lose his virginity in the past? Just on the past cockblocks, that is extremely unlikely especially since Momo is there.

    • If that's true. Makoto is the rightful ruler of Sun Country and the great great great great great grandfather in law of Sakurai. Whats the possibilites, the childhood friend as in-law 🤣

  • I think the more interesting implication is that the "Savior Abel" might not have existed at all. There are confusing logistical implications now.

    If Abel is indeed Anna, then the more likely development is Takatsuki is going to disguise himself as Abel and achieve the feats in cooperation to fulfil the legend.
    She's still the one with the Light Hero skill, but the Holy Maiden Anna isn't called the Savior Anna.

    • Abel did exist. We have confirmation of that. Makoto doesn’t need to disguise himself as Abel as this is a thousand years in the past. No one’s going to remember him and Bifrons did hint that he met someone who looked like Makoto. I feel like this is the continuation of Abel getting the accomplishments of Makoto and that Ira, to hide Makoto from being written in history, changed what happened in the past.

  • Anna is Noel's ancestor..... That's why they look alike. There is no NTR

    • Hasn’t been confirmed as in 100% no doubt. The only thing that say is they have Anna’s blood and I can’t trust that especially after knowing that history’s turning out to be part bullshit. And genetically speaking, it’s impossible to look exactly as your ancestors a thousand years ago since humans evolve. There might be some resemblance but looking exactly is impossible. Even if there are incestuous relationships, that would mess up the genetics of body and might cause some serious disorders in the long run. This is why some royalties are known for having disorders.

      • Is not impossible and this is ficcion ......

      • I wouldn't say it's impossible. The fact that this is a fantasy world and we can just suspend our disbelief on that one aspect aside, 1000 really isn't that big of a deal.

        Humanity has been around for a lot longer, and while some smaller things might've changed like skin tone due to there being light, a person's features can still look similar. I have a strong enough family resemblance for my own mother to need a double-take when looking at similar-aged photos of family members from both sides, and my father resembles his great-grandfather, I believe. That's already 5 generations, and it's an eerily identical case. Sometimes genes are just funny.

        Of course, this doesn't apply to everyone, but there's no reason it can't apply here.

    • @Asphyxia : "humans evolve" is not a reason someone wouldn't look like their ancestor. Unless you're talking ancestor in the sense of not only a thousand years, but in the six digits of years, in which case they might not even be the same species Modern humans have been around for something like 200.000 years ago for example.

      And really, Makoto is the one saying they're identical. Do you even understand how limited a human's ability to recognize people are? They could have slightly different bust size, hair a slightly different shade of blonde, eyes a slightly different shade of blue, slightly different cheekbones, if she's slightly fatter or thinner, etc, and it wouldn't even be recognizable.

      • it's really funny how you come up with these ideas that it's impossible because of this or that and it turns out that this is a fantasy novel.
        It is a fact that Noel is a descendant of Anna (or so the author says), by the clues that have been given everything points to Abel being Anna and the fact that Noel and Anna both look similar well .........

        This is a fantasy novel. Try to leave reality out because the logic of the real world does not apply here.

        • I'm fairly sure you're replying to the wrong person.

        • Because seriously, try to read that again, with the knowledge that the reply wasn't directed at you. I'm saying that their reasoning (evolution, yadda yadda) isn't even legitimate logic to refute the possibility of people looking like their ancestor.

          Still, I suppose if you insist on taking that as an attack against you, feel free.

        • Sorry you are right I thought you was that guy my bad

        • @archeisse You’re missing the point. Makoto did say she looks exactly like Noel. Would you say that Makoto would mistake someone close-up? Even if the details are amiss by a bit that’s just nitpicking at this point. I don’t have sufficient information so I’ll stop at this point.

          @Holow I’m just pointing out that history’s turning out to be rubbish and can’t be trusted. Abel and Anna are the same person, the Holy Dragon was coerced to help etc. There might be more in the upcoming chapters. The one saying that they are of Anna’s bloodline are the royalty not the author and we don’t have proof of that. Do you?

        • Yes, people miss the little details all the time. Why do you think stuff like visual tricks exist? People are more easily tricked into making assumptions than you'd think.

          Honestly, the issue here is immediately assuming things about how the world works with minimal information. Say even if here on earth it's literally impossible for a descendant to look exactly like their ancestor, how do you know that the isekai works exactly the same? It certainly is different in a lot of places already, so why could it not be different there? The moment you say that it's impossible there because it's impossible here is the moment I'd point out that we don't have dragons, nor do we have magic, nor do we have demons running around enslaving humans, nor do we actually have vampires. It's a different world, that's quite literally what isekai means. Even better, you say the world's history is rubbish? Well how are you so sure that Noel must be Anna then? It's another one of those things said by the people who made that same rubbish.

        • It IS isekai that’s why I am assuming that some magic or shit is involved. Did you even read my reply/main comment properly? Have you properly comprehended what I meant? It is not genetics that is involved but something else i.e magic. I only gave an example in our world why looking exactly the same from your ancestors a thousand years ago is impossible which is evolution and that Anna and Noel might be the same person since this is an isekai.

          Now taking this into context with my main comment here, I think that it is NTR since Noel and Anna looks exactly the same as stated by Makoto. It is given that this is an isekai so I would immediately presume something’s involved. I am coming from the idea/conjecture in the order of: there are gaps and lies in the history such as Abel and Anna being different person > the statement of the Highland royalty that they have Anna’s blood might be a lie > they don’t have the blood of Anna > why does Noel look exactly like Anna > magic/shit is involved and Anna and Noel are the same person = Sakurai might get NTRd by Makoto. My reasoning that Anna and Noel are the same person is not just because they look the same. I already wrote here first that since the Abel (Makoto) of the stories left Anna (Abel) and it isn’t written that they had a child or what, Anna might have reincarnated herself as Noel which is why they look the same. Is it difficult/impossible to reach that conclusion or is my imagination too colorful?

          Now then, do you have an explanation as to why they look exactly the same? I think they are the same person which is why I said that. Then you start saying that he missed something and that they are completely different person when you are going out of context. Why would you say that they are two different looking persons when that hasn’t been described or written in the chapter? Aren’t you starting to assume things here? Where is your proof that they aren’t the same looking person with the given text? Where is your proof that Makoto misidentified Anna for looking exactly the same as Noel?

          You then insert an issue then that I am assuming things. I might have given the wrong idea and I should’ve written “I presume” instead in the comments. (I’ll just write that instead in the next chaps) There’s a difference in the two since I am coming from a conjecture which is, not that I just came up with it from nowhere which is. The isekai’s history is turning out to be rubbish (figuratively) because gaps and lies are showing up which are Anna and Abel being the same person, Cain killing all the heroes except Abel, and the Holy Dragon being coerced to help instead of what the stories say that he joined after the defeat of Bifrons. I already said there too that I trust only the main idea but not the exact details because of this. Would you kindly explain to me why I’m wrong at that?

        • You mean this :

          > The woman that looks exactly like Princess Noel had a shocked face in the clothes of Hero Abel.

          > Judging from her clothes and her way of talking, she must be Abel.

          > Wtf! Are we just going to ignore the fact that Anna is Abel and looks like Noel? Is this NTR for Sakurai?

          Well, what is there to understand, other than you suddenly jumping into the conclusion of NTR?

          Allow me to keep it (relatively) short here, to the core of my issue. Really, I'm not saying that your conjecture is impossible or that it's wrong. But the way you phrase it, saying it's impossible for different people to look the exactly the same for example. It's like completely denying the possibility of it being wrong, that there might be other explanations for it. Jumping to conclusions much? If you're really going to completely refute the possibility of people looking completely identical despite being a different person, kindly elaborate to us less informed on Evolution and Genetics : how is it that these two scientific subjects apparently explain that a descendant absolutely can't look identical to their ancestor? That strangers absolutely can't look identical? Maybe something Darwin said, or Mendel? Some other luminary? How is it that magic/isekai bullshit is the only explanation for it?

          On another note, if we're really going to just leave IRL Logic behind in finding explanations, it's not like there's no possibility to explain it as part of a story. Identical Grandson is a trope, amd so is Identical Strangers. Lots of ways to explain these things happening in a story. It doesn't all end up in "OMG NTR!!!!"

        • You’re digressing too much that it hurts my brain and you keep missing the point. Is this your talent? And I keep answering your questions when you haven’t answered mine. You’re just redirecting them. You completely ignored the reasoning as to why it might be NTR. You didn’t read my whole argument did you? Would you kindly read it again and explain to me how I suddenly jumped to that conclusion? Are your reading comprehension skills so low or did you just skim the text and ignore what I wrote there? I should probably copy paste it here too for you to read again but then again, you probably won’t.

          “I am coming from the idea/conjecture in the order of: there are gaps and lies in the history such as Abel and Anna being different person > the statement of the Highland royalty that they have Anna’s blood might be a lie > they don’t have the blood of Anna > why does Noel look exactly like Anna > magic/shit is involved and Anna and Noel are the same person = Sakurai might get NTRd by Makoto. My reasoning that Anna and Noel are the same person is not just because they look the same. I already wrote here first that since the Abel (Makoto) of the stories left Anna (Abel) and it isn’t written that they had a child or what, Anna might have reincarnated herself as Noel which is why they look the same.”

          I didn’t say it was NTR, I said it might be NTR. There is a difference in “might be” and “it is/was”. I even gave out a step by step process on how I got there. And then you just nitpicked and ignored the important details just to claim I’m just “suddenly jumping into the conclusion of NTR.”

          “Honestly, the issue here is immediately assuming things about how the world works with minimal information.”

          Was this not the issue there? Forgive me since I think tunnel-visioned too hard on this.

          Since you asked me to explain, I’ll do so for your convenience then. The given context/statement from the translated novel is “It was the spitting image of the Princess-sama of Highland” and “The woman that looks exactly like Princess Noel had a shocked face in the clothes of Hero Abel.”

          I’ll challenge your comprehension and ask where the hell did you get the idea that they looked identical? It already said there that they looked exactly the same. Are you blind? There’s a difference in looking exactly the same and identical you dimwit and you keep referring to identical when the given context says they look exactly the same. Should I give you the definition of the two as well?

          Without even studying, my logical assumptions are already telling me it’s impossible for a person to look exactly the same as his/her ancestor but I’ll look it up for you.

          I’m not a geneticist and I’m nowhere close to being a health professional so I’ll just put this instead.

          “This is based on the randomness of DNA. When a child is “created” it gets 50% of the DNA of each of it’s parents. Siblings are sharing roughly 50% of DNA with each other. That means that siblings get also 50% different DNA from their parents. Let’s go one generation further. Each child gets 25% of the DNA of each of it’s 4 grandparents. That 25% might be the looks of your paternal grandfather or some specific personal traits (curly hair, red hair, tall/small etc.). So your second eldest brother got some features of your father’s great grandfather (that would make it a 6.25% of shared DNA of this paternal great great grandfather (your father’s great grandfather) and all other siblings didn’t get those “looks” (or the DNA responsible for their look was replaced by some other ancestors DNA).
          Lastly, keep in mind that we as humans always try to look for these attributes and say “oh, you look like your father”. I heard these comments many times about my adoptive father and myself, obviously there’s no chance I could had “his looks”. It was just that people made the assumption based on the fact that they believed he was my biological father.
          We’re all unique because we have a blend of randomness from our ancestors in us. Not just 4–5 generations, many more. But we’re never having all our ancestors DNA in us, as we “lose” already 50% of our parents DNA. Consider this.”

          Basically what it means is that the percentage of genes passing down from an ancestor is lessened the more generations you add therefore we are a blend of different genes and the traits mix making it unlikely for an ancestor’s traits to be dominant in yours. If we assume that we have 10 generations being each of them a century long since a human lifespan as stated in the novel is approximately 100 years long, a single ancestor’s DNA contribution would make up about 0.0244140625% of our genes. The chances of it being dominant? Exponentially even lower.

          So now you mean to tell me that Noel just somehow broke the boundaries of what is near-impossible and gain genes to become someone who looks exactly like same as her ancestor which is impossible in the first place? And I didn’t even add the variable of evolution since I’m getting lazy now. This is just one variable considered and adding evolution would dramatically affect the chances of them looking the same, making it even lower. Now then, could you kindly explain to me how that happened? How else would you explain this to me without using isekai logic? And also please don’t give me “the IRL logic don’t work in isekai”. You asked me and I answered so please satisfy my curiosity too.

          I already gave you my conclusion that it was done using magic/shit which includes as you already said there, tropes (basically no logic bullshit from fictional stories) so there’s that. Please answer my previous questions too. I’m dying to see your explanations. And don’t digress too much. :)

        • And honestly, I don't think I'm digressing at all. Though I'd admit this : I do get sidetracked by your other arguments unrelated to the issue I started with and that might knot up our discussion. Still, those are still responses to topics you raised and thus IMO not a digression. In any case, I'll focus things somewhat.

          So, I don't actually have any issue with you seemingly presenting a "might be NTR" case as an "it has to be NTR!" case, for one. My starting argument is because you raised Evolution and Genetics as your justification to completely refute the possibility of either Noel being merely an identical descendant (the Identical Grandson trope) or even an identical stranger (the Identical Stranger trope). Since as far as I'm aware in my medical education furthered by a passing interest in genetics and evolution, those two topics does not actually have any such statement in them.

          So, in the interest of returning your ad-hominems, here's something I found regarding Identical, you nitwit :
          > Identical is also noun with the meaning: something which has exactly the same properties as something else.
          Unless you have a definition that says that Identical and Exactly the Same is different, jackass?
          And that's not getting into that "looking exactly the same" doesn't mean the same thing as "having exactly the same genes", both could be true, but it could be that the latter isn't and is instead "having exactly the same sequence of genes", I'll get into that later.

          Your logical assumption is just that, assumption, it makes an ass out of you. Now the thing you quoted? I'd like a link for further perusal please. And I get the feeling that the wordings there are rather questionably leading, and so is your understanding of it.

          First, the only thing you can be sure of is that a child inherits half their genes from their father and the other half from their mother. Anything further on the family tree is based on chance. A grandchild inherits 50% their paternal genes, which is composed of 50% the genes of the paternal grandfather and 50% the genes of the paternal grandmother. This does not equate with the grandchild always having 25% of their paternal grandfather's gene and 25% of their paternal grandmother's gene. There is always a possibility of inheriting more of one and thus less of the others, all the way to the possibility of getting everything the father got from the paternal grandfather and none from the paternal grandmother for a male baby however unlikely.

          Otherwise, how do you explain the inheritance of phenotypes dependent on shorter genes? Like the ABO blood type, which is only determined by a pair? You don't inherit half a gene, you have a 50% chance of inheriting one.

          And further : genes haven't changed for a long time now. It's still a sequence of only four types of bases (the letters), Adenine, Cytosine, Thymine, Guanine. Put short, there is a finite amount of combinations, and it's highly improbable that a sequence is completely unique. What this means is, the genetic sequence giving the father his black hair might not be inherited by his son, but said son may very well inherit an identical sequence from his mother, who got it from her father. And then you trace their family tree and you find that they actually share a common ancestor from which they get that sequence. It happens, it's why people in the same geographic region tend to share traits like hair color or predilection for Thalassemia.

          Then you get to the concept of a gene pool. Let's illustrate it thus :
          A starting population of, let's pick an arbitrary number of, say, 10 pairs of husbands and wives, 20 people total. Assume also that all of them have unique genetic sequences. So we have 40 variations of each Chromosomes 1-22, 30 X Chromosomes, and 10 Y Chromosomes.
          If each pair were to have 4 childrens, there'd be 40 new population. And yet, they all inherit from the starting one hundred. And when those children's grow up and pair off (let's also assume that they pair off cleanly) and have 4 childrens of their own each, we'd have 80 children in this new generation. Continue down this line of thought, and eventually there's too many people and not enough chromosomal variety barring mutations (which aren't even that often in the first place) then you start seeing people who are ostensibly strangers and yet look remarkably similar. You want numbers? There's 1600 unique combinations for each chromosomes 1-22, so by the time the population passes that number, you start seeing people exhibiting the similarities from sharing, say, the same chromosome 1 pairs. And then account for the near impossibility of having a perfectly diverse gene pool outside of laboratory conditions, the diversity goes down even further.
          Thus the concept of Gene Pool and Genetic Bottleneck. It's very relevant when talking about royalties.

          So this :

          > Basically what it means is that the percentage of genes passing down from an ancestor is lessened the more generations you add therefore we are a blend of different genes and the traits mix making it unlikely for an ancestor’s traits to be dominant in yours. If we assume that we have 10 generations being each of them a century long since a human lifespan as stated in the novel is approximately 100 years long, a single ancestor’s DNA contribution would make up about 0.0244140625% of our genes. The chances of it being dominant? Exponentially even lower

          Is to my knowledge, wrong on so many different levels I don"t even know where to start. To begin with, human genetics don't draw from an infinitely sized pool. Repetitions happen, as mentioned. If in your gene pool there is no gene for blonde hair, only variants of black? Barring mutation your hair isn't going to be anything but black, just some varying shades of it. And how many shades of black even exists? How many of those are even differentiable with the very limited human eyes?

          The important point is : while a descendant won't have the exact same DNA as their ancestor, nothing is preventing them fro having the exact same sequence of DNA barring random chance. I trust you can tell the difference between the two bits I italicised. The DNA might be different, but if the sequence is the same, the result is the same. My Guanine is not your Guanine, but they're both Guanine. The point of not inheriting everything from one ancestor is mostly a philosophical one. Even if you don't inherit your paternal grandfather's father's genes for hazel-colored eyes, you may inherit the genes for hazel-colored eyes from your maternal grandmother, whose genetic sequence for it is only one letter off, say maybe a Cytosine in place of a Thymine, causing the hue to be slightly off, but by a random mutation (it happens, our genes are hardly stable), that one Thymine is substituted by Cytosine making the sequence identical to your paternal grandfather's father, causing you to have the same hue of hazel. It's still not his gene, but the phenotypes don't care. People around you won't say "you have your maternal grandmother's eyes, just off by one genetic letter", they'll say " you have your paternal grandfather's father's eyes", it doesn't actually mean that you do.

          Going back to Noel then. I'll assume you've actually read the above and thus I'll be as concise as I can : as long as the genetic sequences making up Anna's appearance are still present in her parents, from whatever line of inheritance, then they just have to come together into Noel's genetic makeup.

          Genetic inheritance isn't deterministic, it's probability based. She could inherit the genes for the bust size from her father's side that you wouldn't notice he had because that sort of thing don't normally manifest the same way in men, as just one example. And they don't even have to all come from Anna, in fact, it's fine even if none of them do, they just have to add up into exactly the same sequence.

          So this :
          > So now you mean to tell me that Noel just somehow broke the boundaries of what is near-impossible and gain genes to become someone who looks exactly like same as her ancestor which is impossible in the first place? And I didn’t even add the variable of evolution since I’m getting lazy now. This is just one variable considered and adding evolution would dramatically affect the chances of them looking the same, making it even lower. Now then, could you kindly explain to me how that happened? How else would you explain this to me without using isekai logic? And also please don’t give me “the IRL logic don’t work in isekai”. You asked me and I answered so please satisfy my curiosity too.

          The answer is that this :
          "broke the boundaries of what is near-impossible and gain genes to become someone who looks exactly like same as her ancestor which is impossible in the first place?"

          Is just plain wrong on account of conflating impossible and improbable. It's improbable, but not impossible. And the tendency for royalties to choke their own gene pool helps the probability immensely. It's not like we actually know what Noel's immediate predecessors look like either., we haven't even gotten any description of her parents, much less any knowledge on their genetic sequence. And we don't know if there isn't anyone in Highland Royalty before that looks like that, only that Noel does, and she's the only one who is both known and is important to the story.

          And you keep saying evolution evolution as if that helps your arguments, honestly it just makes you sound like a know-it-all asshat especially since you just demonstrated a level of ignorance of genetics that is honestly surprising. You wouldn't happen to be just as ignorant on evolution are you?

          So, Noel looking like Anna :
          Is it impossible? No it's not. Is it improbable? Certainly. Can it happen regardless? It absolutely can.

          In any case, I've answered your question as far as I can now. And I've nitpicked enough on your genetics. Hopefully that wall of text can be understood well enough. I'd actually suggest that you ask on an appropriate forum for further knowledge, if only so you can know better what you're talking about if you were to ever use it as an argument again.

        • So I look like a know-it-all? Nice to see that. I already said there that I’m not a geneticist nor someone even close to being a health professional so I just took some infromation on the internet which came from researchers. Of course I know you’ll say that trusting or basing information from the internet is unacademic but just to say this again, I have no info for that so I just used it defend my argument.

          Your request for the link too. I picked one which considered generations from not just grandparents to great-grandparents but even further from that.
          https://www.quora.com/Is-it-possible-to-look-like-your-ancestors-but-not-really-knowing-that-you-look-like-your-ancestors

          I apparently need to do more I’ll just update my argument instead.

          “I’d actually suggest that you ask on an appropriate forum for further knowledge, if only so you can know better what you’re talking about if you were to ever use it as an argument again.” So I guess I’m allowed to use forums such as Quora? Hooray!

          Let’s start first with the text. The keyword there is “It was the spitting image of the Princess-sama of Highland” and “The woman that looks exactly like Princess Noel had a shocked face in the clothes of Hero Abel.”

          “Exactly” there is written as an adjective. I’ll get technical here so just see.

          Do you know the degrees of adjectives?
          Definition of identical from Merriam-Webster

          : being the same : SELFSAME
          ex. the identical place we stopped before
          : having such close resemblance as to be essentially the same
          ex. identical hats

          Definition of exactly
          
: in a manner or measure or to a degree or number that strictly conforms to a fact or condition
          ex. it's exactly 3 o'clock
ex. these two pieces are exactly the same size
          : in every respect : ALTOGETHER, ENTIRELY
          ex. that was exactly the wrong thing to do
ex. not exactly what I had in mind

          I follow the given context as best as I could and as far as I know, exactly alike is the superlative form of similar followed by identical. That’s why a legitimate example sentence would be to say that “The twins look identical but not exactly alike.” There’s a slight difference there, you get it? It is the proper term to use we are getting technical but when we flatter someone or casually use it they basically mean the same thing. But I’m not getting casual here. This is extremely nitpicky but I’ll be fine with them having the same definition since this is not the main topic.

          “So, Noel looking like Anna :
          Is it impossible? No it’s not. Is it improbable? Certainly. Can it happen regardless? It absolutely can.”

          You said it there yourself, Noel could look like Anna but can you prove by genetics that she looks exactly like Anna? In the first place, even identical twins can’t look exactly the same as each other. There’s always those slight differences be it a slight skintone, headshape, jawline, etc.

          https://www.quora.com/Why-do-identical-twins-look-different?top_ans=32181439
          Just check it since it’s too long.

          I think the best way to dispute your argument about genes and yadda yadda is by asking for an example. Percentages and theoretical bullshit don’t mean a thing if the practical example isn’t there right?

          Let’s assume you are correct. (Hooray! You’re right! :D) Prove it then. Can you give me a picture of two adults starting from head to toes, from every conceivable physical category, who look exactly the same that they could be said to be indistinguishable? If I could find fault or any kind of difference whatsoever, that would disprove the statement that two people can look exactly alike. If we’re going by Makoto’s words that they look exactly alike (take it literally meaning like a copy of each other), we should also find examples as stated by your argument. Unless you could show me that proof, your point is basically false until then. But if you’ll say that it’s impossible since we don’t have pictures of all people to prove your argument, it’s still false until then. This by the way, is a legitimate, scientific way to prove an argument. Falsifiability is what disproved the ancient thinking that all numbers are rational. (This is just an example so don’t say I digress) You’ll just have to give me a picture of two people who look exactly the same with my requirements above and then you’ll have proven your argument. Easy right?

        • I’ll add that the example is from an ancestor a thousand years ago and a modern person. You can do this @archeisse!

        • I think your imagination is too colorful yea. We'll have to wait and see.