WM – Chapter 229: Takatsuki Makoto meets the Great Sage

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• Ohhhh, Makoto hitting all the right notes. Master technician, for sure.

• Thanks for the chapter! Now Makoto KILL THEM!

• Thank you kami-sama.

  So that's how it is. My new theory is Makoto is the true light hero. Abel is just someone who followed him around and took credit for his work because of Ira's rewrite.

  • That would, again, mean Althena admitted to thinking Makoto is cute right to his face.

    • Huh, where was that? I'll be clear here, I'm pretty much agreed on the line of thought that Althena likes him. But mine is borne from observing how Althena seem to be a bit too quick to lower her defenses against Makoto.

      • It was mentioned before he went to the past that Althena chose her heros for the light skill based on their looks. Basically Sakurai and Abel are her type which is why I doubt Makoto will get the skill, but there's nothing stopping him from leveling his light magic and using the lens trick to look like the light hero by accident

        • Oh that. Honestly, I'd take Noah's statement with a pinch of salt. Lots of third party observations end up proven wrong later after all. Would be nice of we ever get to see Althena's so-called first love though. The one that fell for Noah.

    • You forget he already has Momo Noah Eir and Ira plus they all already witnessed his grand accomplishments.

• I like how much author thinks ahead. Like seriously he never revealed Great Sage's name just for this moment. Seriously this arc is like where author reveals things he foreshadowed so i'm very excited about this whole arc.

  But in the alternate timeline where Makoto didn't visit how did Abel save Great Sage since he can't cut the string of fate? Maybe when Abel killed Bifrost she got freed? Or the alternate timeline never existed and goddesses just acted that way and Makoto was fated to go to the past all along? I think the latter since there was an unknown game changer party mentioned before

  Also it's been a while Makoto undid Clear Mind. It probably also affected his soul for the future lol

  Thanks for the chapter!

  • Rather in the alternate timeline if Makoto never met Momo she would probably never meet the heroes so she would never be kidnapped as a bait. So in the original timeline rather than being saved why did Bifrost turn a random little girl into his servant in the first place

  • This is the current timeline even autor in previus note stated that they met in the past. Every chapter to this point only confirm that there wasn't any change in timeline. There were varius hints that Momo hide past from Makoto.

    • I know that but Althena mentioned demons altered the past by kidnapping Abel before he got strong so that's why Makoto went to past. So what i mean is there was supposed to be an original timeline that demons didn't interfere and Abel didn't get captured right?

      I also think the same but i just can't understand this contradictory statement

      • The likely reason is either A this is all predetermined and the goddesses did that as a reason to send Makoto to the past to keep the loop on track, B certain main points remain the same each loop but the details can change and it's the details the demons are targeting that the goddesses worry about. They said it themselves that the only thing that must not change is Abel living and everything else is alright since Ira will make adjustments. I think Makoto time traveling and saving Abel is pretty much the forced event while the rest is subject to his decisions and RPG player

    • So what if demons never interfered with the past and Abel got captured in the main timeline? That would make Makoto going to the past the only timeline right? (It'd make a loop though)

      • Pretty sure the reason Abel was caught was due to a tip off from the future demons to the past demons hence why they are looking for the light hero. I must admit though it's odd that they have orders to capture him alive since if they want him dead the surest way is to kill all the heros regardless, there is another peice to this puzzle we are missing

  • To answer it in a way that makes sense, the Gods had banned spirit magic before this, and to name the legendary hero as someone who only had elementary water magic (the weakest in offense) and spirit magic that was not tied to any God at this time (Noah can only have 1 believer which is the Hero Killer), it would not look good nor leave a legacy. Abel having Light Hero skill eventually (even if he is not the one doing all the work) is a much better scapegoat. And by making him the legend, and saying he is in danger as opposed to saying makoto was really the savior, makoto is more willing to go back in time, save abel, and in trying to stop 'interference' he actually guides abel to the final fight. Also with RPG player and no God at this time, fate and gods probably cant even sense him so they believed it was abel and may not have known better. But hey this is all just a theory.

  • I want to say something here so bad but it'd be spoiling, and that's worse

    Remember that Ira said to look for her oracle in the past in order to be able to converse with her? Just wait until that time

  • The entire line of thought that 'makoto is the original abel' is just straight not right. We get proper details on the original timeline when Makoto meets with Ira in this timeline, so just wait until then.
    Although the timeline with makoto is the one that effects the present so it doesn't really matter other than nuance.

• This is good, so far, this is really good! He turned off Clear Mind and still wants to fight! Generally, when our boy decides to go get some, his record has been all wins and no losses. I'm not about to bet against this guy. His stats only look weak, but a water proficiency of 999 and destiny magic and light magic and Noah's dagger, the monsters and that General are about to be suplexed into the afterworld. Thanks for the chapter, Reigokai. Makoto says some cool things sometimes.

• GO MAKATO GO!!!!

• Just a thought here but maybe makoto being calm and not considering the demons a threat might be an after effect of the spirit King thing?

• Thank you for the chapter :D
  Pffffft hahahahaha, the impenetrable
  Sure, but not to a godkiller

  • When you take a moniker that is also a challenge. . .

    • Right?
      "Titanic Unsinkable!"
      *God cracks his knuckles ominously in the background*

    • That Titanic thing is really a challenge to the higher powers. Titanic means like the titans..., the same titans who got overthrown and then locked up in Tartarus. And IIRC one of the more outrageous claims is that not even God can sink her. So not only were they challenging the old Greek gods, they're challenging the Abrahamic God as well.

• I kind of get the feeling that Makoto is disassociated from the hands of fate, otherwise I'm of the belief that he would have mentioned that there was one really thick rope connecting him with the Great Sage-sama.

  • That's something that has been mentioned by Furiae earlier. He has nothing under the Sight of a Destiny Mage. Despite which, he affects his surrounding like someone with a lot of strings do. Personally, I believe it ties to his "foresight immunity" that people keep on attributing to his (nonexistent) fanaticism.

    • Can you really say Makoto isn't a fanatic? He refused some pretty good offers, including to only temporarily become Ira's believer just to get a skill/blessing. And constantly thinking about how to free Noah with no concern over difficulty/viability.

      He may be (mostly) sane, but he's definitely a fanatic.

      • Nope, a fanatic wouldn't even consider denying the words of their Goddess. A fanatic wouldn't even dream of arguing against their Goddess. A fanatic wouldn't even consider looking at their Goddess with lewd thoughts. All those, Makoto is guilty of.

        He's refused some pretty good offers, but in the end, none of those offers are things he absolutely, positively needs. The way I see it, it's like someone being offered something along the line "I'll give you [insert arbitrarily large amount of money], you just have to stop being her friend and be my friend instead". Except instead of friend, it's religious follower. And Makoto already has his own definition of faith : leaving Noah, however temporarily, to become Ira's follower to get a Gift Skill is not okay, that is not faith, not even if he returned to Noah afterwards. That's not fanaticism, that's principle. You want fanaticism, you look at Peter and Fuji-yan after Ira's concert. Fanaticism clouds your eyes, it makes you refuse other people trying to convince you something contrary to your beliefs, it makes you think the subject of your faith can do no wrong. None of those Makoto is guilty of. He's all too aware of Noah's failings, he doesn't put her on a pedestal, and he's generally pretty clear-minded while dealing with her. If anything brings him close to anything like fanaticism, it's probably more because Noah is exactly his type. And that's not fanaticism, that's infatuation, or maybe love.

      • Here's something for definitions, courtesy Google and dictionary.com

        Fatanicism is the quality of being fanatical
        Fanatical is motivated or characterized by an extreme, uncritical enthusiasm or zeal, as in religion or politics.

        Makoto is never fanatical in his approach to belief in Noah. He's very critical of her tendency to advise him to "save his own skin", all too often he outright ignore such advice's, if not while throwing in some retort for good measure. He's enthusiastic, but not such that he blindly charged into the Undersea Temple the moment he knew where it was. The one time he considered going there he was quite literally bored out of his mind. And zeal, defined as great energy or enthusiasm in pursuit of a cause or objective..., yeah he's quite motivated in trying to free Noah, but I doubt zeal is the word for it. When he sees something resembling chance he took them, but never to the exclusion of more immediate concerns.

      • Rather then a fanatic he is quite simply faithful to Noah, while he doesn't blindly follow her anytime he thinks he has a chance to help her he tries (damn lustful Jupiter), everytime the goddesses have offered a reward he usually asks about something related to helping Noah before thinking of himself

    • You don't need fanaticism, blocking foresight isn't pretty hard to do, you just need to have faith in other gods. The higher the faith you have, the harder it would be to see your future.

      That fanatic remarks by other gods when Makoto refused to have skills? It's just them giving snide remarks to Noah. I think this is just the case where subtlety is lost on translations.

      Makoto isn't a fanatic, but he's definitely faithful.

      • Well yeah, but as you said, the higher the faith you have, the harder it is to see. And as mentioned in chapter 201, Makoto's future is impossible to see, despite the fact that he's not even that faithful, certainly not like the Snake Church (the other group of people immune to foresight) that is described as having faith bordering on madness.

        • No, Makoto is that faithful, despite all of his casual remarks to Noah. He always set aside time for praying every 10 minutes after waking up remember?

          He's someone whose faith were kept deep in their heart, and not exhibiting zealous personality, but through his act instead. Everytime divine entities asked him for a reward, he always thinking about Noah first and foremost (Titan, Ira's reward, payment for going to the past).

          The only difference between Makoto and Snake Cult aside from their gods, is that Makoto's faith came from gratitude, he doesn't believe blindly, and he doesn't bother people, but their faith level is about the same.

        • I suppose this is a problem of not agreeing about the definition of fanatic-level faith bordering on madness. Makoto is certainly very faithful, that much is clear. But how strong is strong enough, and how does madness enter into the equation? I'm personally of the opinion that madness makes stronger faith, when literally nothing occupies your consciousness except your faith. Even if Makoto is mad, that's not his flavor of madness. Makoto still has concerns other than being Noah's believer, still does thing other than attempting to free Noah. I'm assuming that the Snake Church's faith overrides everything and that's the level of faith you need to become immune to Ira's foresight, and that's not the level of Makoto's faith.

        • I'm thinking more of the type of faith

          Isaac (and by extension the snake cult) came from blind faith
          Makoto came from gratitude

          Different type, same level. That's why Makoto sometimes rejects Noah's command to get away and prioritizing his comrades life instead.

          I also think the nature of deity they worship have a hand in that. Typhon, as typical for an evil god, seems to prefer absolute faith. Old gods and Titans loves freedom, and Makoto seems to fully embodies that idea.

        • I forgot this, but I don't think you need that much faith to be able to get away from Ira's foresight. Just being a believer of different gods i think would be enough to make it hard and blur.

          Remember the fact that Ira also can't see Furiae's future.

        • That's because she's Naia's oracle, nothing to do with her faith.

        • She isn't even fond of Naia, if I remember.

        • Or rather, the strength of her faith. It was mentioned by Ira that Naia is outside of her jurisdiction, and by extension Naia's Oracle is as well.

    • All of this talking about makotos faith is really cool but I think we've left out a very important detail.

      Furi reacted when RPG player gives makoto choices.

      So it doesn't seem like his fate is being hidden, maybe its something more like once he makes a choice with RPG player fate is set in stone? Since nothing can effect his actions once he made that choice there are no threads tying him to anything.
      Either that or perhaps it has to do with Noah and the titan gods belief of freedom, decisions are made without the bindings from fate to effect him. Since fate has no hold on him how the hell is it supposed to predict what he does at any given moment. The only time it is able to judge him is when he has a clear yes or no question in front of him that effects the fate of those around him.
      Just my own thoughts that I think are interesting.

      • Personally, I think that his lack of presence in foresight, lack of Strings of Fate, and all that are also aspects of RPG Player. Rather than the results being set in stone when the choice is made, it's more like it refuse any predestination from outside sources, which is also what causes him to not have any Strings of Fate. It allows him to achieve things considered impossible and it's also what was causing the reactions by Furiae and Ira (yes, Ira was also exposed to Makoto's choice-making episode, just before he decided to accept returning to the past, she reacted but Noah kept her from making a fuss).

• I hope cain will not fight makoto since they are sempai kohai relationship,

  They both love their goddess.

  I cant wait till makoto came back and tease the great sage lol

  Thanks for the update

  • Cain is a fanatic driven mad by Noah's beauty and in this time period Noah supports the Demon side in the hopes of releasing her fellow Titan gods so it's very likely Cain will not be cooperating with Makoto, then again the author loves surprises and my get tells me something is gonna happen between Makoto and Cain and possibly the past Moon Oracle too

    • Cain was a woman the entire time!
      She's just flat as a board.

    • The names of Cain and Abel bring thoughts to my mind in accordance to what you've said